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Discussion: Artists and Copyright
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astri |
Artists and Copyright
Feb 20 2008, 12:07 PM EST
Hi All, Since this is a separate topic from the others, and one that is potentially very useful to have marked clearly so it is accessible and can be built on further, I am posting relevant parts of the javafred discussion here. Maybe because I am not that computer savvy, I find it much easier to locate our discussions on this site than at the yahoo groups archive! Best wishes to all, Astri Do you find this valuable?
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astri |
1. RE: Artists and Copyright
Feb 20 2008, 12:23 PM EST
From: astri@finearts.uvic.caSubject: Re: [javafred] Werner's topic Date: February 18, 2008 17:23:40 PST (CA) To: javafred@yahoogroups.com The minute an artist --- even an artist who will not sell through a gallery or at an auction --- lets go of a work to someone else, they have the right to sell it on. (Meanwhile, the collectors/patrons do _not_ have the copyright, which by international law remains with the artist till death and with the artist' family for 50 years after the artist's death; there is such variance from and disregard of this legal principle in Indonesia, which really upsets many of us). Easier to be a hermit living in the forest or on a mountain, perhaps. The minute you live in the world, you are involved in the whole shebang -- from pure straight through to filthy, along the whole continuum -- all so very, very human, strong between 'ideal' and 'real'. CaCHING / Namasté, Astri Do you find this valuable? |
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astri |
2. RE: Artists and Copyright - Question from GARY
Feb 20 2008, 12:24 PM EST
From: crabbini@de2en.deSubject: Re: [javafred] Werner's topic Date: February 18, 2008 22:07:10 PST (CA) To: javafred@yahoogroups.com Astri, what does the copyright mean in concrete terms for the artist? Do you find this valuable? |
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astri |
3. RE: Artists and Copyright - Answer to GARY's Q
Feb 20 2008, 12:28 PM EST
I'd like to hear as many artists as possible answer this -- my perspective is (as always) just one slice of the whole big pie. But to me, the artist's copyright to their work, means: (1) In the LARGE scheme of things: artists 'own' their own work and nobody else can use it, reproduce it, sell any kinds of publishing rights to it, or in any way claim it as other than belonging legally to the artist; s/he is the one that is significant, artistically and art historically, even after the work is purchased by someone else. (2) In the PRAGMATIC scheme of things: this means potential income for the artist. Anyone else? Any lawyers out there who can help us understand how the situation in indonesia has come to the point where a Ciputra can purchase the copyright to Hendra's work from his family? (And here I am not sure if this means only the paintings in C's collection, which of course is the largest H collection in existence), or _all_ of H's work) Do you find this valuable? |
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astri |
4. RE: Artists and Copyright - TJANDRA's input
Feb 20 2008, 12:31 PM EST
From: tkerton@melsa.net.idSubject: Re: [javafred] Werner's topic Date: February 19, 2008 2:02:21 PST (CA) To: javafred@yahoogroups.com Hi everyone, I've been following the discussions here with great interest..since I've been pretty much involved in the art scene/world/business for the past 12 years, and now I am part of the editorial staff at a relatively new magazine on Asian contemporary art called "C-Arts", which operates out of Jakarta. As far as the copyright issue is involved, yes, what Astri said is totally true, although I have seen that there are people here (dealers, collectors and others) who seem to think that whoever buys a painting or whatever also gets the copyright to it..my family holds the copyright to my late father's artwork, which means that if anyone wanted to reproduce any of the works for their own purposes (using the images for publishing, etc.), they would first have to get permission from me. I think this point does need to be clarified among the art buyers here in Indonesia.. Anyway, will pop in again soon.. Cheers, Tjandra Kerton Do you find this valuable? |
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astri |
5. RE: Artists and Copyright - ASTRI's response, 1
Feb 20 2008, 12:35 PM EST
From: astri@finearts.uvic.caSubject: Re: [javafred] Werner's topic Date: February 19, 2008 8:27:23 PST (CA) To: javafred@yahoogroups.com Hi All! Thanks, Tjandra, for answering the copyright question the way I understand it as well [MODERATOR: Sorry! that sounds like I only want to hear my own ideas reflected back, which is not the case, - uh - i hope! :) ] -- I would only add that in addition to giving their permission to have their work reproduced in a book or article, artists -- like university archives, or whoever else holds an image -- can ask a fee for this, and in my experience, I have paid anywhere from US$ 20 to 100 for this. I have not gone ahead when the fee asked was considerably larger - and this was never asked by an artist but by a collector / gallery owner type person. Mostly in Indonesia, artists don't ask fees of art critics/-writers, particularly not when you know them a little bit (and artists know that any exposure is a necessity to become better known), and never when you have done them a favor in the past, such as written about them. This is entirely cultural, and wonderful, tying into the strong and beautiful art of friendship and relationship, which includes a 'whole view' of relationship which can mix business, friendship, and random acts of generosity, and the sense of hutang budi, that is one of the ways Indonesians teach us to be more refined and heart-ful human beings. [MODERATOR: QUESTION: YOUNGER ARTISTS: How do YOU practice this, today? My experience is 15 years old!] If I had had to pay fees for the images reproduced in my 1994 book, I would not have been able to publish it. At the time, Indonesia had not yet signed on to the International Copyright Agreement (as far as I understand). More importantly, I believe, at the time, everyone understood the newness and importance of their art being represented in a highly visible, mobile product abroad for the first time. Do you find this valuable? |
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astri |
6. RE: Artists and Copyright - ASTRI's response, 2
Feb 20 2008, 12:36 PM EST
(It's interesting to note that I could not do this publication today, as writers of such books make no money -- in fact, I myself had to find $8,000 to cover the cost of _preparing_ the slides and photos I had taken so they were print-worthy. So while I probably made about half that money over the years of sales of that book (which was printed in a very small edition, now out of print), I paid big money for a student for that book to come out. Not to speak of the thousands of hours of researching and writing it. And what wonderful work and experiences and encounters that all entailed, one of the most wonderful chapters in my life.) Meanwhile, I would say to all of Indonesia's artists: look at the person who is asking you. If they are not students - and if they subsist within a fairly well to do economy and institution (like an Australian, Singaporean, American, European etc, museum, art gallery, university), _do_ charge them a fee! Charge me a fee now that I can afford to pay something! But also take into consideration how many images we're talking about. Usually a writer can only afford to pay top price for one image. But know that this is your right. And the best thing to do would be to find a lawyer who is willing to speak to artists and draw up a contract sheet that they can copy and have filled out everytime a collector / gallery owner / buyer approaches them. Do not ever give away or sell your copyright to anyone else! This is the most insidious part of the art market I see in Indonesia, apart from the forgery industry. Bahu Membahu... Astri Do you find this valuable? |
